Comments on: If the Tax Code is So Complicated, Let’s Just Have a Flat Tax http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/ tax news, tax info and tax policy Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:20:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Kelly http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5457 Kelly Wed, 21 May 2008 18:45:44 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5457 ATG, I agree. I am not opposed to reform or to revision (in fact, I think it's necessary) but I do think that it is naive to believe that simply replacing one system with another will fix all of our current ills. Ray Harris, what about states that don't have an income tax currently? Would the feds make them? And would unincorporated municipalities also charge tax? Just trying to work out the details in my head. ATG, I agree. I am not opposed to reform or to revision (in fact, I think it’s necessary) but I do think that it is naive to believe that simply replacing one system with another will fix all of our current ills.
Ray Harris, what about states that don’t have an income tax currently? Would the feds make them? And would unincorporated municipalities also charge tax? Just trying to work out the details in my head.

]]> By: Wayne PHILLIPS http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5456 Wayne PHILLIPS Wed, 21 May 2008 17:46:07 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5456 Taxes are a necessity for the government to operate. Collectively as a civilized society and a democracy, we choose to have a paid government. But only the wealthy can participate, therefore they decide who pays and how much. Civic duty and public service no longer are the creditials or the results from the local courthouse to the White House and Capitol Hill. I doubt our Founding Fathers would be very proud of the current system and how it operates. Taxes are a necessity for the government to operate. Collectively as a civilized society and a democracy, we choose to have a paid government. But only the wealthy can participate, therefore they decide who pays and how much.
Civic duty and public service no longer are the creditials or the results from the local courthouse to the White House and Capitol Hill. I doubt our Founding Fathers would be very proud of the current system and how it operates.

]]> By: J http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5455 J Wed, 21 May 2008 17:20:50 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5455 ATG ~ I should have said "most able to pay". ATG ~ I should have said “most able to pay”.

]]> By: Urbie http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5454 Urbie Wed, 21 May 2008 11:23:40 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5454 Hi Kelly -- This thread gets back to my comment, the other day, that I would vote for any candidate who promised to do nothing -- no new laws, no repeal of existing laws, no tax hikes or cuts, etc., just do nothing, and stop breaking things. A lot of Congresspeople are very smart -- most of them got through law school, after all -- and their basic belief is that government action can make society better; that's why they ran for Congress! So they pass law after law, to address various issues. The tax code gets filled with deductions, credits, phase-outs, carve-outs, different tax rates for different types of capital gains, recovered depreciation, and stuff like that. The issue of "flat vs. progressive" has nothing to do with any of this -- as Mauledagain points out, you just calculate AGI, then look up a number in a tax table, so progressivity doesn't complicate anything. (And when Congress thinks it's "simplifying the tax system" by reducing the number of brackets, that's just stupid. There could be a million tiny brackets, and that would not make the system any more complicated, because you'd still just be looking a number up in a tax table!) Throw in the unintended consequences that accompany ANY legislation -- a subject 'way beyond the scop of this discussion -- and it's hopeless. Just leave things the way they are, and we'll manage somehow! Urb Hi Kelly –

This thread gets back to my comment, the other day, that I would vote for any candidate who promised to do nothing — no new laws, no repeal of existing laws, no tax hikes or cuts, etc., just do nothing, and stop breaking things.

A lot of Congresspeople are very smart — most of them got through law school, after all — and their basic belief is that government action can make society better; that’s why they ran for Congress! So they pass law after law, to address various issues. The tax code gets filled with deductions, credits, phase-outs, carve-outs, different tax rates for different types of capital gains, recovered depreciation, and stuff like that.

The issue of “flat vs. progressive” has nothing to do with any of this — as Mauledagain points out, you just calculate AGI, then look up a number in a tax table, so progressivity doesn’t complicate anything. (And when Congress thinks it’s “simplifying the tax system” by reducing the number of brackets, that’s just stupid. There could be a million tiny brackets, and that would not make the system any more complicated, because you’d still just be looking a number up in a tax table!)

Throw in the unintended consequences that accompany ANY legislation — a subject ‘way beyond the scop of this discussion — and it’s hopeless. Just leave things the way they are, and we’ll manage somehow!

Urb

]]> By: (Taxman) Mike http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5435 (Taxman) Mike Wed, 21 May 2008 02:34:43 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5435 Kelly, I do apologize, the link I was using went to a different thread and I did not see the post there thinking I was where I posted it. I just got back from class and found the post as you said it was there. Again I do apologize for that. I did find it!!! Sorry Kelly. I’m not paranoid I just could not find it earlier this evening. Ren, I am sorry if you had a hard time following my post. I am dyslexic, only went to school up to the 7th grade, and taught myself from there on. It takes me several times reading anything to really understand what it says, so I do understand what you are saying. Please try reading it again. The simple truth is there is NO LAW that requires you, me or any other American to file or pay income taxes. I am a Master Electrician in the Commonwealth of Virginia and hold several black belts in the martial arts. I own a small Electrical business and am working on my second small business, a martial arts school. I understand the value of learning the truth about income taxes. It is our “Duty” to learn and understand the law as it relates to us as Americans. We do not need a “Flat tax” or a “Fair tax” what “WE” need is to learn and understand the tax law as it relates to us!!! If we all stopped paying this tax that is fraudulently being imposed upon us, we would have enough money to stimulate our own economy without barrowing money from China to do it. Thus we would not be setting our children up to pay back debt that we incurred!!! Does that help you understand? Kelly,
I do apologize, the link I was using went to a different thread and I did not see the post there thinking I was where I posted it. I just got back from class and found the post as you said it was there. Again I do apologize for that. I did find it!!! Sorry Kelly. I’m not paranoid I just could not find it earlier this evening.

Ren,
I am sorry if you had a hard time following my post. I am dyslexic, only went to school up to the 7th grade, and taught myself from there on. It takes me several times reading anything to really understand what it says, so I do understand what you are saying. Please try reading it again.

The simple truth is there is NO LAW that requires you, me or any other American to file or pay income taxes.

I am a Master Electrician in the Commonwealth of Virginia and hold several black belts in the martial arts. I own a small Electrical business and am working on my second small business, a martial arts school. I understand the value of learning the truth about income taxes.

It is our “Duty” to learn and understand the law as it relates to us as Americans.

We do not need a “Flat tax” or a “Fair tax” what “WE” need is to learn and understand the tax law as it relates to us!!!

If we all stopped paying this tax that is fraudulently being imposed upon us, we would have enough money to stimulate our own economy without barrowing money from China to do it. Thus we would not be setting our children up to pay back debt that we incurred!!!

Does that help you understand?

]]> By: Ren Garcia http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5453 Ren Garcia Wed, 21 May 2008 00:43:41 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5453 Mike Your comment is more complicated & as difficult to follow as the Tax Code and taxing to read. Mike

Your comment is more complicated & as difficult to follow as the Tax Code and taxing to read.

]]> By: Waleska Alsieux http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5436 Waleska Alsieux Wed, 21 May 2008 00:08:49 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5436 As a voluntary tax payer for as long as I can remember I can't find a good reason for a flat tax and being nor rich nor poor has not affected the I way I have respected tax laws though I may not agree with all of them. Being bios in the matter I would have to side with Ms. Kelly on this one but I must admit to being enlightened in the matter by all the previous comments. :) As a voluntary tax payer for as long as I can remember I can’t find a good reason for a flat tax and being nor rich nor poor has not affected the I way I have respected tax laws though I may not agree with all of them. Being bios in the matter I would have to side with Ms. Kelly on this one but I must admit to being enlightened in the matter by all the previous comments. :)

]]> By: Madgirl http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5438 Madgirl Tue, 20 May 2008 23:29:28 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5438 I agree that it is short sided to believe that a flat tax will reduce or remove the loopholes and abuses of the tax system. no one set out for the tax code to be as complicated as it has become - it is the actual application of the system that has encouraged its growth. the taxing system is used to influence and regulate so many other aspects of taxpayer's finances and lives - through health/child care to retirement savings - taxes affect so much more than a simple percentage of our paychecks. I agree that it is short sided to believe that a flat tax will reduce or remove the loopholes and abuses of the tax system.

no one set out for the tax code to be as complicated as it has become - it is the actual application of the system that has encouraged its growth.

the taxing system is used to influence and regulate so many other aspects of taxpayer’s finances and lives - through health/child care to retirement savings - taxes affect so much more than a simple percentage of our paychecks.

]]> By: jennydecki http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5437 jennydecki Tue, 20 May 2008 22:47:36 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5437 I fear that having a flat tax will lead us down the road to Europe. While having almost/around 50% of income taxed and then using all that money to provide services for the people sounds great up front, as it stands now I can save money by not going to the doctor if I just have a cold now. I can't do that if the money is taken out of my paycheck or my income is *dinged* at the end of the year. Services I don't need that I'll have to pay for. It's a scary thought. I know that depending on how much people believe the government should coddle it's citizens and provide social programs might think it sounds cold that I would shy away from being taxed to provide for all...but yeah, that's my fear. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." -Karl Marx That is my greatest fear. Even though if it happens it's not like I can do anything about it. I fear that having a flat tax will lead us down the road to Europe. While having almost/around 50% of income taxed and then using all that money to provide services for the people sounds great up front, as it stands now I can save money by not going to the doctor if I just have a cold now. I can’t do that if the money is taken out of my paycheck or my income is *dinged* at the end of the year.

Services I don’t need that I’ll have to pay for. It’s a scary thought. I know that depending on how much people believe the government should coddle it’s citizens and provide social programs might think it sounds cold that I would shy away from being taxed to provide for all…but yeah, that’s my fear.

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.” -Karl Marx

That is my greatest fear. Even though if it happens it’s not like I can do anything about it.

]]> By: Kelly http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5452 Kelly Tue, 20 May 2008 21:26:24 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/if-the-tax-code-is-so-complicated-lets-just-have-a-flat-tax/#comment-5452 Mike, Stop being paranoid. I haven't deleted any of your comments. I have advised you that I will put your comments into moderation in the future and I will. But I haven't deleted anything, so please don't say things that aren't true. Mike,

Stop being paranoid. I haven’t deleted any of your comments. I have advised you that I will put your comments into moderation in the future and I will. But I haven’t deleted anything, so please don’t say things that aren’t true.

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