Comments on: Religion and Taxes: Commentary http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/ Paying taxes is painful... but reading about them shouldn't be. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:33:00 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Mary Jo http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/comment-page-1/#comment-3845 Mary Jo Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:51:46 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/#comment-3845 I went to a Jesuit university, and we used to have fascinating discussions on topics like this. Somehow, it never translated into a parish situation. If there had been more priests like you, willing to debate and discuss issues, perhaps more of us would not have fallen away from the church. I'm enjoying following this discussion. I went to a Jesuit university, and we used to have fascinating discussions on topics like this.

Somehow, it never translated into a parish situation. If there had been more priests like you, willing to debate and discuss issues, perhaps more of us would not have fallen away from the church.

I’m enjoying following this discussion.

]]> By: Kirk T. Berlenbach http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/comment-page-1/#comment-3841 Kirk T. Berlenbach Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:36:28 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/#comment-3841 Ren and Kristen are of course correct- there is no way to establish a perfectly equitable system. People are imperfect, selfish and greedy. Those with money and power will naturally use what they already have to amass more. This most definately applies to us all, especially myself. My point was that even though we may not succeed, we need to try to establish personal codes of conduct AND tax policies that emphasize our communal obligation to care for the poor and vulnerable. We may not elminate the problem but we must do something to address it because we can ALL do more than what we currently do. "The Kingdom" as Kristen puts it, may not be established by human hands alone, but we need to do our part and keep reaching for that goal, all the while trusting that some day, God will finish our work. Ren and Kristen are of course correct-
there is no way to establish a perfectly equitable system. People are imperfect, selfish and greedy. Those with money and power will naturally use what they already have to amass more. This most definately applies to us all, especially myself.
My point was that even though we may not succeed, we need to try to establish personal codes of conduct AND tax policies that emphasize our communal obligation to care for the poor and vulnerable. We may not elminate the problem but we must do something to address it because we can ALL do more than what we currently do.
“The Kingdom” as Kristen puts it, may not be established by human hands alone, but we need to do our part and keep reaching for that goal, all the while trusting that some day, God will finish our work.

]]> By: Kristen King http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/comment-page-1/#comment-3842 Kristen King Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:48:45 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/#comment-3842 Personally, I don't think this is a problem human government can solve, nor individual humans (thought of course generosity and care for fellow mankind is certainly a worthy pursuit in the model set forth by Jesus). It's an imperfect system run by imperfect men whose desires for personal success and power (and lack of actual power) interfere with their ability to effect change. My feeling is that the only government that can bring about the just system we all want is God's kingdom government (Dan 2:44), which is discussed throughout the Bible as the solution to all of mankind's problems and which Jesus taught us to pray for (Matt 6:9,10). What do you think? kk Personally, I don’t think this is a problem human government can solve, nor individual humans (thought of course generosity and care for fellow mankind is certainly a worthy pursuit in the model set forth by Jesus). It’s an imperfect system run by imperfect men whose desires for personal success and power (and lack of actual power) interfere with their ability to effect change. My feeling is that the only government that can bring about the just system we all want is God’s kingdom government (Dan 2:44), which is discussed throughout the Bible as the solution to all of mankind’s problems and which Jesus taught us to pray for (Matt 6:9,10). What do you think?

kk

]]> By: Ren Garcia http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/comment-page-1/#comment-3846 Ren Garcia Sat, 05 Jan 2008 02:20:55 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/#comment-3846 on keeping the rich rich at the expense of the poor: as long as the economic pie (gross domestic product, in economic-ese) does not grow, this will always happen because the rich have more opportunities for grabbing a bigger share of the pie, i.e., "money begets money." on keeping the rich rich at the expense of the poor: as long as the economic pie (gross domestic product, in economic-ese) does not grow, this will always happen because the rich have more opportunities for grabbing a bigger share of the pie, i.e., “money begets money.”

]]> By: Kirk T. Berlenbach http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/comment-page-1/#comment-3843 Kirk T. Berlenbach Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:43:53 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/#comment-3843 Hi Kristen- You get right to the heart of the matter which is, of course, the most challenging part of any debate. How do we put this into practice? Well I am not a tax person nor a law person so I don't know how any particular legislation ought to be contructed but what I do feel is that any and all tax law needs to recognize the truth and respond appropriately; namely that we have a collective obligation to care for the vulnerable members of our society. This is tricky because I also adamantly oppose the idea of trying to legislate any particular religion (if you want to live in a country ruled by fundamentalists you can move to Iran or Saudi Arabia). However, in looking at any piece of legislation the question must be asked- "Who benefits?" Does it only serve to make the rich richer? Does it protect or enhance the wealth of corporations? What is the effect on the poor, the disabled and the elderly? The "Trickle Down" theory does not work. Legislation must account for and address the needs of all, not just the wealthy and powerful who create it. Unfortunately, I am not sufficiently verse to describe what such law might look like. Therefore it is my conclusion that the most immediate (and perhaps most important) changes are to be made at an individual level. I can only assume that a majority (if not the entirety) of the people in this conversation have more than what they need to live. We must each evaluate our own lives and use of money in the light of our moral obligation to the whole of our community, including the poor and disenfranchised. How you choose to put that into action must be decided on an individual level but it can include lots of possibilities- it begins by evaluating your standard of living- what do you really need? Then begin applyiing this standard to your daily choices of what you buy. You must also make a commitement to share your time, your talent and/or your money (including the money you save by simplifying) with those causes/charities that you deem worthy. I look forward to hearing your ideas. Hi Kristen-
You get right to the heart of the matter which is, of course, the most challenging part of any debate. How do we put this into practice? Well I am not a tax person nor a law person so I don’t know how any particular legislation ought to be contructed but what I do feel is that any and all tax law needs to recognize the truth and respond appropriately; namely that we have a collective obligation to care for the vulnerable members of our society. This is tricky because I also adamantly oppose the idea of trying to legislate any particular religion (if you want to live in a country ruled by fundamentalists you can move to Iran or Saudi Arabia). However, in looking at any piece of legislation the question must be asked- “Who benefits?” Does it only serve to make the rich richer? Does it protect or enhance the wealth of corporations? What is the effect on the poor, the disabled and the elderly? The “Trickle Down” theory does not work. Legislation must account for and address the needs of all, not just the wealthy and powerful who create it. Unfortunately, I am not sufficiently verse to describe what such law might look like.
Therefore it is my conclusion that the most immediate (and perhaps most important) changes are to be made at an individual level. I can only assume that a majority (if not the entirety) of the people in this conversation have more than what they need to live. We must each evaluate our own lives and use of money in the light of our moral obligation to the whole of our community, including the poor and disenfranchised. How you choose to put that into action must be decided on an individual level but it can include lots of possibilities- it begins by evaluating your standard of living- what do you really need? Then begin applyiing this standard to your daily choices of what you buy. You must also make a commitement to share your time, your talent and/or your money (including the money you save by simplifying) with those causes/charities that you deem worthy.
I look forward to hearing your ideas.

]]> By: Kristen King http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/comment-page-1/#comment-3844 Kristen King Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:00:13 +0000 http://www.taxgirl.com/religion-and-taxes-commentary/#comment-3844 <i>...as individuals, we all have a obligation to try to make sure that our goverment creates policies that allow for equity, justice and opportuinty for all… IOW policies that are moral and good. Naturally, there will be a wide range of opinion as to how best to create that enviornment and even over what defines “moral” and “good.” So I can only speak for myself.</i> So what exactly do you feel can be done? I see a lot of discussion about what result we want, but I'm not sure I understand how you think it could potentially be accomplished. In other words, how can people meet the obligation you describe? (You discuss sharing abundance, but that doesn't have an impact on legislation per se.) I have my own opinions, but I'd like to hear yours. Kristen …as individuals, we all have a obligation to try to make sure that our goverment creates policies that allow for equity, justice and opportuinty for all… IOW policies that are moral and good. Naturally, there will be a wide range of opinion as to how best to create that enviornment and even over what defines “moral” and “good.” So I can only speak for myself.

So what exactly do you feel can be done? I see a lot of discussion about what result we want, but I’m not sure I understand how you think it could potentially be accomplished. In other words, how can people meet the obligation you describe? (You discuss sharing abundance, but that doesn’t have an impact on legislation per se.) I have my own opinions, but I’d like to hear yours.

Kristen

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